[Phlogiston]

I have seen many 70s with the same knobs as would be found on a 90:

http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=11048

http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=2215

90:

http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=2239

Was this ever correct? It does not match the pictures in the Gallery.

http://www.philcoradio.com/gallery/1931b.htm

[Steve Davis]

See my post in the Philco 70 Cabinet thread. http://www.philcoradio.com/phorum/showth...p?tid=5481

Steve

[Ron Ramirez]

Well...a few years ago, I did the research, and posted my findings on the rec.antiques.radio+phono newsgroup.

Here is a copy of that post, from late February 2005:

Okay, you may be surprised at what these sets originally used...

Philco part numbers, for reference:
Large rosette - 03063
Medium rosette - 03064
Small rosette (commonly used for off-on) - 03437
Model 20 tuning knob - 4289-A
Model 20 small knob, off-on and volume - 4290-A

Using Service Bulletin 57 as a reference (issued May 1931), Philco originally calls for Part No. 03196 for the tuning knob. This is either a typo, or an early version of 03064. It also lists Part 4290-A for the volume, off-on and tone controls!

Bulletin 57-A, issued December 1931, lists Part No. 03064 for tuning and 03437 for volume, off-on, and tone. The same knobs are specified in Bulletin 57-B (also December 1931).

I have seen early versions of Model 70 cathedrals (all with brass escutcheons, and some with bakelite escutcheons) that had the knob layout specified in Bulletins 57-A and 57-B, but not 57. In other words, medium rosette for tuning, small rosettes for volume/off-on/tone. On the other hand, what few 70 consoles I've seen had the large rosette for tuning, medium rosettes for volume and tone, small rosette for off-on.

For what it's worth, I recently acquired a very rare Model 35 battery-operated cathedral, in appearance the same as the 70, bakelite escutcheon. It has a medium rosette for tuning, and one small rosette on the tone control (the other knobs are missing). Interestingly enough, though, the service bulletin for Model 35, No. 87 (undated), lists 03063 for the "large" knob and 03064 for the "small" knob! This could account for the two missing knobs on my 35 - perhaps the medium rosette should be on the volume control, the 03437 on the switch, and an 03063 and 03064 are missing?

Philco, most likely, switched to the large/medium/small rosette configuration in later production of 70 cathedrals, Bulletins 57-A and 57-B to the contrary.

Now let's look at the Model 90 cathedral. Bulletin 56, May 1931, lists the following:
Tuning - 4958-A (early part no. for 03063?)
Volume and Tone - 4959-A (early part no. for 03064?)
Off-On - 4290-A (same as Model 20 off-on and volume)

I have seen an early Model 90, brass escutcheon, two Type 45 tubes, that had a 4290-A knob on the power switch.

Bulletin 85 (Model 90 with one Type 47 tube), August 1931, lists the same knobs as Bulletin 56 although they were certainly using 03063, 03064 and 03437 by then.

Bulletin 85-A (Model 90 with two Type 47 tubes), undated, probably January 1932, lists the common 03063 for tuning, 03064 for volume and tone, and 03437 for off-on.

When Models 71 and 91 came onto the market in June 1932, both continued to use knobs 03063 (tuning), 03064 (volume and tone), and 03437 (switch).

This post has been referenced, argued about, discounted, ignored, etc., ad nauseum over the years. All I can say is this: Use, or ignore, the information above as you see fit - and have a nice day.

[Paul Philco322]

I have seen those and have those style knobs on a Airline radio made by Belmont. #62 425 I believe, I think they came with the set. Btw I have one and it has the rosettes, not a bad little set I might add.

http://www.antiqueradio.com/Jun05_Arnold_Airline.html

Paul

[Ron Ramirez]

Reviving this old thread due to discussion here and on ARF.

I promised additional info. Here it is.

Part No. 4958-A
This is a large rosette knob. On the front and sides, it looks identical to an 03063 knob. But look at the back; this is where it is different. The 4958-A's back surface is flat, and the opening for the shaft is round. It uses a different spring to hold the knob in place on the shaft. And, yes, this knob also fits a 1/4 flat shaft. In contrast, the 03063 knob has a circle molded in the back. The opening for the shaft has a pentagon shape, with the knob spring placed in the widest part of the hole.

Part No. 4959-A
This is a medium rosette knob. On the front and sides, it looks identical to an 03064 knob. Look at the back; same comments apply to the 4959-A as the 4958-A above.

I have gone back and double-checked what various Philco service bulletins have to say regarding the knobs used.

Here we go (reiterates info in post #3 above plus adds info):

Model 20 (first few weeks of production, Bulletin 28 ):
Knob (Large) - 4279-A; Knob (Small) - 4280-A.
I cannot cross reference these numbers to any other Philco in my Service Bulletins. Since I have never seen a 20 with anything but a 4289-A for tuning and 4290-A for off-on and volume, I must assume that 4279-A and 4280-A are earlier part numbers for identical knobs, or else they are typos.

Model 20 (Bulletin 36):
Knob (Large) - 4289-A; Knob (Small) - 4290-A.

Model 21
No Bulletin for this set exists that I am aware of. The vast majority of these have been found with 4289-A tuning knobs and 4290-A switch and volume knobs. At least one has been found with a 4959-A or 03064 tuning knob, and a small hole in the front panel for the tuning shaft. Since the 4289-A requires a large hole in the panel to accommodate the extension at the back of the knob, this 21 was either a very late production set, or else the front panel (and tuning knob) were replaced by a collector.

Model 35 (battery operated version of Model 70, Bulletin 87):
Knob (Large) - 03063; Knob (Small) - 03064
Curiously, these are the only knobs listed although the two 35 sets I have seen had 03437 knobs on the off-on switch.

Model 46 (DC operated version of Model 21, Bulletin 53):
Knob (Dial) - 4289-A; Knob (Switch and Volume Control) - 4290-A.

Model 70 (early w/o AVC, Bulletin 57):
Knob (Dial) - 03196; Knobs (Switch, Tone, Volume) - 4290-A
I have no idea where the 03196 part number came from as it does not fit in with the other Philcos of this time period.

Model 70 (early w/o AVC, Bulletin 57-A):
Knob (Large) - 03064; Knob (Small) - 03437
03437 is the small rosette knob.

Model 70 (late w/AVC, Bulletin 57-B):
Knob (Large) - 03064; Knob (Small) - 03437

Model 90 (2-45, Bulletin 56):
Knob (Large, Dial Control) - 4958-A; Knob (Small, Tone & Volume) - 4959-A; Knob (Switch) - 4290-A
I once owned a 90 lowboy that used these knobs.

Model 90 (1-47, Bulletin 85):
Knob (Large) - 4958-A; Knob (Small) - 4959-A; Knob (Switch) - 4290-A

Model 90 (2-47, Bulletin 85-A):
Knob (Large) - 03063; Knob (Small) - 03064; Knob (Switch) - 03437

Model 50 (Bulletin 86):
Knob (Large) - 03064; Knob (Small) - 03437

Model 111 and early 112 - No knob information given.

I realize that the information above and in post #3 of this thread may raise more questions than give answers, especially when it appears that many Model 70 consoles (and possibly some cathedral models too) have been found with 03063 tuning knobs, 03064 tone and volume knobs, and 03437 switch knobs, Bulletins 57, 57-A and 57-B to the contrary.

My policy is to follow the information given in the various Service Bulletins, and compare with photos of original sets in original Philco ads of the time, and make a judgment call from there. (Yes, I know some Philco ads show knobs on sets that weren't used in production such as 20 knobs and escutcheon on a 90 cathedral; I take that into account when making a decision on which knobs to use.) I really don't give a rat's behind what anyone else does, especially since I know there will never be any consensus on this subject as the only people who really know the complete answers are dead...and dead men tell no tales.

[tab10672]

Ron,

referring to the unknown early mod 20 part numbers, I have a mod 20 plain that the knobs almost identical to the 20 deluxe I have except for a notch cut out at the base of both 20 plain knobs. Maybe this is the "2" styles?

[tab10672]

   

I don't know how well you can see it but one has a small notch cut out in the base of the cone and the other doesn't. I always thought the notch would have been an indicator because it is positioned at the top of the knob when they are in the off/low volume position. Springs and spring hole are identical.

It looks like one is larger in the photo but they are identical in size.

[Steve Davis]

Ron, Thank you!
I for one would like to keep my radios as authentic as possible.

Steve