[codefox1]

Zeniths had nice looking dial plates, practically nobody disagrees with that. Under rated power transformers were/are as deadly as early automatic transmissions in Packard Cars.

[Paul Philco322]

This is an interesting thread, many makes had some real quality at the top of their lines in the 30's. I have listened to well restored Wells Gardners and Stewart Warners that sound super. The key is identifying the real nice ones from the middle of the line average ones. I have always maintained that many AA5's and 6's are better sounding and better performers than a modern day Kmart/Walmart special, and btw does Radio Shack even make radios any more? I miss Archer brand products, especially the 14 gauge stranded antenna wire.....

Paul

[Eliot Ness]

I've heard a Stratosphere, and I was actually disappointed.

That's kind of surprising Ron. The Stratosphere restored correctly, if nothing else, is a heck of a great sounding radio.... if it has good audio getting to it.

The problem you run into with sound comparisons is you almost have to do an A/B test to compare sets at this level with the same sound source. You're also dealing with 70 year old electronics, speakers, and questionable alignments. The three Strats I've heard have a theater sound that I've yet to hear equaled in a radio of that vintage. In Milwaukee I was privileged to hear a nice Strat compared to a pretty hot Philharmonic. With a higher end FM tuner (can't remember the brand) the Strat sounded incredible. The Philly was no slouch either, but the Strat was really cooking. Now on the DX end of things I'd have to give the edge to the Philly.

As far as Philco vs Zenith vs Wells Gardner vs blah, blah, blah, you've got to collect what appeals to you. If I was only concerned about sound and performance I sure wouldn't be collecting early mantel sets, but design plays a large part in what I collect. My current favorite radio is sure not one I'd use for a daily driver, but I love the looks of my funky little Erla:

[Image: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/j...Front1.jpg]

Not that I don't like my Zeniths and my Brand P sets , but it's oddball mantel sets like this one that get me revved up, whether they're hot performers or not. Just my two centavos worth of commentary.

[Arran]

By the way, with regard to the socket tie points and terminal strips having split lugs on Brand Z sets this wasn't anything unique to that brand, many RCA and related sets used similar ones from the late 1920s till the mid 30s. Are they easier to deal with? I would say they are in some ways but more of a nuisance in others. More often then not you end up breaking one of the fingers off of the lug if you bend them too much.
Regards
Arran

[chris25260880]

During the 60's I worked for a large radio and TV dealer, in the
order of a great color picture and over all quality of what we sold they were:
# 1 RCA
# 2 GE
# 3 Sylvania
# 4 Zenith (picture quality depended on their source of CRT's at the
time, when Sylvania had the contract Zeniths looked
great the other source was horrible. Two of the same
model side by side out of the boxes one looked great the
other horrible depending one the CRT source. these
inferior CRT's would develop a green ring on the screen
borders within a year. Zenith TV's were very over rated
# 5 Admiral....a distant # 5

[BrendaAnnD]

What? No rating for Xonix or Muntz (or Curtis Mathes, just a stripped down older model RCA). Or Motorola with their oddball 23" CRT that went south in short order?

[morzh]

As for the CRT source, Sony TVs were the same. Some were great, some were...just horrible. This was very well correlated with the countries of assembly.

[Jayce]

I do think Zeniths have gotten over-rated over the years, expecially the 38-39 models and of course the Walton sets. That said, I have found my 'Brand Z' collection actually growing. A little tip a Zenith collector I know gave me last night: Look for the 1942 and possibly even the 1941 models as these are being largely ignored by the more fanatical Zenith collectors and often go dirt cheap. These are the years I keep finding and I aimed towards the even less wanted radio-phono consoles. I just picked up a nice 8-S-661 console at a rummage sale a couple weeks back for $50 and it's a nice performer and the Zenith guy pointed out that it is just as good as any high priced 38-39 model of the same tube count. Currently I have five Zenith consoles (inluding an odd and rare prewar transformerless model) and they have been about as cheap as a nice Philco in price around here.

[TA Forbes]

Since you brought it up, the 12S568/69 and 12S595 are very good sounding sets. They often fall under the "ignored" Z's.

However, they also fall under the "padding the tube count" type of Z's that I mentioned previously. Two 6X5s, two 6J5s serving as oscillator and 2d detector, and three 6J5s driving/inverting the PP6V6s. Also, there is only ONE I.F. amp.

In my opinion this design sacrifices ability to pull in distant stations, which is something I would think the buyer of an expensive high-tube count set would want.

[Arran]

Yep, brand Z was noted for bloated tube counts especially in the early 40s. There was absolutely no reason for using a pair of 6X5s as rectifiers other then that purpose when they could have used a single 5Y4/5Y3/80, and the way they were used had to be one of the stupidest power supply designs of all time. That was another trick to bloat tube counts, using single triodes when they could have used dual triodes, for some unknown reason Philco did this with their 670 series sets. Another that always bugged me was the use of a 6J5 and a 6H6 rather then using a 6Q7, it bumps a 5 tuber up to 6 but still does nothing for performance as the 6H6 diodes are often tied together or one side is neutralized by tying the plate and cathode together.
Regards
Arran

[Ron Ramirez]

As far as Philco vs Zenith vs Wells Gardner vs blah, blah, blah, you've got to collect what appeals to you.

Well said, sir.

[Chuck Schwark]

This appealed to me early on in my collecting.

It's at the house in the living room as furniture with an antique stained glass shade.
Been is two previous apts as well.

[Image: http://www.philcorepairbench.com/images/10s567.jpg]

[murf]

I have 5 of each, and prefer the looks of the zenith cabinets.
They are much easier to work on as well.
Just depends on which model zenith you are talking about.
Some are ok, and some are very rich sounding with excellent bass.
Philco's about the same in my opinion.
Seems like most people prefer the tuning eye as well which Philco didn't do.
Just my opinion,
murf

P.S.
Ford rules!!!

[GarySP]

Hey Murf, Buy a FORD, buy the best, drive a mile, walk the rest!!!
Friendly regards, Gary

[murf]

I actually drive Lincolns, and pass all the broken down GM and Chrysler products that are littering our highways.