[Guest]

Hi everyone-- I'm a new member, and it's all due to an interesting little Phillie that I found in a second-hand store that was having a closing sale this weekend.

Well, there was just something about this beauty that had been kept in such marvelous shape over the years that I just couldn't resist (and definitely couldn't let her be consigned to a scrap heap!), so now she's found a new home.

The problem is, there appears to be much lower interest in later Philco console models, at least on the Web, so I can't ID this one. And as you'll see from the pictures below, part of the ID sticker on the back label has been scraped off, and unfortunately, it was the part that contained the model number.

In any event, although I'm a restoration rookie, I do know enough not to just plug her into the wall and take my chances, so I'll need to track down a schematic and/or service manual for the unit... so if anyone can take a look at the pictures listed below, and let me know what I've got, I'd very much appreciate it.

By the way-- those aren't asbestos panels that are being used as heat shields near the big tube in the amp, are they...?

Thanks for any help you can give!!

-Kevin


[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_front.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_door_open.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_turntable.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_sticker.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_insides.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_amp.jpg]

[Image: http://www.kinescopes.com/philco_back_detail.jpg]

[exray]

Hi and welcome.

I'm glad somebody likes that vintage of sets because the poor things need saving too! I like your avatar, haven't seen that screen in many years I guess you're fond of this era.

Anyway, I did some sleuthing by browsing the Beitman's handbooks and it seems you may be the owner of an RT202 tuner and a G1708S amplifier (pgs 109 and 121 in the 1959 book). There's also a RT150 but I need to write all the tube numbers down and match it up...too difficult switch back and forth on the monitor.

In the meantime do give a look at this page http://antiqueradio.org/welcome.htm

and head towards the Beginner's section and make particular note of the capacitor replacement article.

I can send you emails of these schematics if they in fact do match up tube wise. You can dig deeper to see if they correspond in detail.

And yeah, thats probably asbestos panels. They aren't contagious - just leave them be.

-Bill

[exray]

Ok, I checked out the diagrams. You seem to have a model G-1807S, 09S, 11S, 13S. Probably the same electrically but different cabinet styles or something. The SAMs manuals would have much more info - maybe one of the other guys can help on that given those numbers?

This is a fairly major project...are you sure you are up to it? It may go fairly easily...or not. Pics of the guts would speak volumes about what you may be up against. By 1959 a lot of the troublesome paper capacitors were out of the picture but not completely. And this is before Philco 'went down the tubes' so it should be a pretty good unit at the end of it all.

Do you have a variac by any chance?

-Bill

[Guest]

Bill-- first off, thanks **very** much for the info. It's a bit intimidating to know that it's a fairly major project right off the bat, but I'll take a look at the reference link you've provided, and see how I think I'll measure up to the job.

I don't have a Variac, but I was warned that the unit was not operational when I bought it... hopefully, that doesn't mean someone's already fried something inside/underneath the amp or tuner. In any event, my first thought was along the lines of what you outlined-- to carefully pull out the amp, and take a look underneath to see the general condition. I'm guessing by your comment on the degree of difficulty that there's probably a lot under there!

Incidentally, does anyone else think it's a bit strange to have a stereo console unit with only one speaker mounted in it? (As you look at the front of the unit, the single speaker enclosure is in the bottom half of the right grille panel-- the left panel opens to show the amp selector and radio controls, with a square-ish empty space underneath, presumably for a reel-to-reel deck.) Further, on the back of the unit, the RCA jacks next to the electrical safety interlock at the top of the amp enclosure are marked for EXT AMP (left one) and TAPE (right one), but it's not quite clear to me if they mean those to be inputs or outputs.

I was a little apprehensive about the heat shield that sits underneath the large tube (the 5U4GB) on the amp, because it is crumbling a bit on one of the corners (which I think is visible in the the close up picture). Is it possible or desirable to attempt to seal the edge, or is it wisest to just leave it alone, and avoid disturbing it as much as possible?

Thanks for your help so far, Bill-- it looks like I may need to line up a few knowledgeable friends to get this girl singing again...!

-Kevin

[exray]

Incidentally, does anyone else think it's a bit strange to have a stereo console unit with only one speaker mounted in it?

I was a little apprehensive about the heat shield that sits underneath the large tube (the 5U4GB) on the amp, because it is crumbling a bit on one of the corners (which I think is visible in the the close up picture). Is it possible or desirable to attempt to seal the edge, or is it wisest to just leave it alone, and avoid disturbing it as much as possible?
-Kevin

If it only has a single speaker then there was probably an outboard companion speaker to go with it at one time. The whole Stereo concept had not really taken hold in the marketplace at that time and I guess many folks opted to live without it if their records weren't Stereo. In the early/mid-60s I personally never forked over the extra buck for the albums that were available in Stereo and the ones I heard weren't always impressive. You may note that this unit also does not do Stereo FM. Funny I don't see any sort of Balance control?

Hmm, looking at the schematic I don't see a Stereo output stage! We better call this a MONO unit that had stereo inputs combined to mono out.

As for the heat-shield. Just don't bother it. I'm opting to say nothing more about it because a political debate may ensue.

[Guest]

Hmm-- that's odd... according to the tube diagram on the back of the unit, the amp does have two separate 6CZ5 tubes for audio output. I figured that was one per channel. But if there's no indication off a stereo output on the schematic, then I suppose there **must** be a Y-adapter underneath that is indeed combining the channels.

And if there's a connection point for an external 2nd speaker, I have to say that it's well-hidden... I don't see one anywhere. That, coupled with the lack of a balance control (as you pointed out) leads me to believe that the output was only meant to be mono-- -- what a strange product design!

And for anyone who's taking notes, the tube complement (and function) is:

Amplifier:
1 - 6EB5 (RECT FOR POLARIZING VOLTAGE)
1 - 6CG7 (1st AUDIO & TONE CONTROL)
1 - 12AX7 (2nd AUDIO & PHASE INVERTER)
2 - 6CZ5 (AUDIO OUT)
1 - 5U4GB (RECTIFIER)

Tuner:
1 - 6BJ7 (DISC AM DET)
3 - 6BA6 (AM RF, FM IF, AM-FM IF)
1 - 6BE6 (AM CONV)
1 - 6BZ6 (FM RF)
1 - 6AB4 (FM CONV)
1 - 6BY8 (LIM)

This **is** going to be interesting...

-Kevin

[exray]

Hmm-- that's odd... according to the tube diagram on the back of the unit, the amp does have two separate 6CZ5 tubes for audio output. I figured that was one per channel. But if there's no indication off a stereo output on the schematic, then I suppose there **must** be a Y-adapter underneath that is indeed combining the channels.

-Kevin

Good eyes ... you will see that the 'channels' are combined before the amp and the 6CZ5 are in a complimentary one channel output.

1959. Like they said back then, 'caveat emptor'. They just didn't say it in Translated Chinese like they do nowadays. Put "Stereo" on the knobs and not deliver stereo. Thats a bummer but its still a nice 13-tube rig worth saving. haha, it has a good war-story to go along with it.

[gary rabbitt]

HI Kevin, Thanks for saving this set. It night take a while, slow and sure to get it going again, but should not be all that bad.

As for the asbestos sheets, looks like they are foil covered sheets. Older sets often has a sheet of asbestos without covering. On those I will usually brush on a coat of clear enamel or lacquer to help keep the particles from flaking. You might want to use a mask or do it outside.

Once you start getting into the set, you ,ayfind something pretty simple that is wrong. I can assure you that the previous owner has tried to power it up. So when they said it did nt work, it still may have lit up or had a hum, which can be a good sign.

Guys, is that a large bumblebee cap on top of the chassis? Largest one I have seen.

I think you will have a great sounding set once finished. Don't be in a hurry, and come back and ask if you need any help. I would suspect that a simple recap, and tube testing wikk get the set going again.

Good luck!
Gary.

[Guest]

Thanks, Gary-- I appreciate the encouragement!

The asbestos pieces are indeed covered with a metallic-looking reflective surface. If a coat or two of lacquer is an effective solution, that makes me feel much better about having them there.

I'm still a bit disappointed to find out that this is actually a **mono** unit-- and that appears to include the turntable as well, since there are only three wires coming off of the cartridge. Ah well-- can't have everything, I suppose. At least I paid a lot less for it than the original owner!

And you're right, it should sound great once everything is back up and running!

-Kevin

[radiorich]

Hello kevin,
Welcome from fellow collector in the Pacific Northwest. I agree with rest group that your set will be nice when done. Please take your time and double check your work before replying power when replacing parts make lot of nots and even take some digital photos were you can.
sincerely Radio Rich
P.S. welcome to the world of Antique radios where nothing is taken lightly

[Guest]

Hey there!

I recently acquired a G1807S from my wife's grandmother, who was the original owner. I have the companion speaker/amp as well. The cabinets are absolutely perfect - nana was a child of the depression, so big-ticket items were well taken care of in her house. These were never stashed in the attic or basement, and I'd wager to say they'd been Pledge'd once a week since 1959.

I don't have any pictures at the current time and I haven't even unscrewed the back off of either unit ... so here are some questions fueled by ignorance (and excitement over finding a post about the same unit):

1. The "Stereo Tape" selection on the main unit ... where would you plug it in? There's a single RCA labelled "Tape" on the back, but it's only one RCA, so that can't be it ... right? I think what I've read in this thread answers that question. Drag.

2. The "main" unit seems to have two power cords. One is mounted up high on the unit, near the two RCA-type connectors pictured above. There looks to be another power cord that has had it's plug cut off. It's coming out of the back of the unit, out of a vent. I thought at first that it was an antenna, but there are antenna screws and an instruction sheet pasted next to them on the back panel. So I'm back to thinking something got sheared off once upon a time ... but that doesn't fit with nana's upkeep habits. Kevin, did you encounter something similar? Is it something that will be explained in the schematics?

3. The second amp/speaker unit (model SA-2001?) has it's own source selection switch - AUX 1, AUX 2, and MAIN. It looks like you could connect a couple of different mono sources to it and use it independent of the main unit if you needed to (makes sense, it has it's own power cord too). It also has a strange XLR/pin-type connector that says "for use with Philco RSB-10" under it. Could this have allowed a hookup to a TV or something else in the Philco family of products?

I'd love to get this thing up and running again ... I wonder if I can use some modern hardware to send stereo signals to the independent amps in each cabinet, since each seems to have an input for a single channel ...

Anyway, um ... thanks for any input you may have. And though this place doesn't seem like the kind of place that flames n00bs, by all means, flame away if you feel that I didn't search hard enough. I can take it.