[BDM]

I did a little comparison tonight with these sets. Side by side using the same antenna. I'd switch between the two. Making a long story short, here's the results. More useless info to come latter on

Ok, the 116 without any doubt, has an edge on the high & low SW bands. It's about the same in the MW/PB band. Also, it seems to have a slight edge in the lower portion of the BCB, say below 800/kc. Not much, but there's a detectable difference. About the same on the LW band.

Now, both sets have been operating for about 1 1/2 hours. They're good and warm. I touched up the IF Ant & RF alignments on the 650 just to be sure. I re-checked the alignment on the 116, and it's still at it's max. Both sets are running full tilt. The 116 does have an overall edge in sensitivity. It seems to shine more in the SW bands. I imaging that's where Philco targeted this set. I couldn't detect any difference in selectivity.

Keep in mind. All caps & lytics have been replaced. I've gone through most of the important resistors to make sure they're in spec. I still have a few more to check on the 116. Also, both sets are just about spot on with tube voltages. So they're the best they can be as they sit right now.

Bottom line, both sets are hot performers as consumer sets go. No complaints on either of them. Just a little something I'd thought I'd share with you.

Here's the 116 vid for those who haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3jPTl7VvVc

[etech]

Brian,

I really enjoyed that video. Thanks. As far as the comparison is concerned, I'm glad to hear that the 650B compared so favorably, since I have one of those. I realize that the 116B is the higher line unit so one would it expect it to be somewhat better.

Ed

[BDM]

Thanks Ed. Next on the plate once several small issues are ironed out, my 116X. Plus your plate will be full shortly, with that 116B. Love to see how that turns out

[BDM]

Here's the completed set. Credit to Barry Jones for the cabinet restoration. Thanks Barry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSoWQxm9n48

[Image: http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/d/80386-1/116bb.jpg]

[etech]

It looks very good Brian. Now to get that 650B back into the cabinet.

Ed

[BDM]

It looks very good Brian. Now to get that 650B back into the cabinet.

Ed

I can hardly wait for that one to arrive

[Ron Ramirez]

With an extra stage of IF amplification, the 116 should have an edge over the 650 on all bands. That the 650 comes so close to 116 performance, especially on the BC band, seems quite amazing.

Maybe over the winter I'll find time to get my own 650B going.

Oh, and your 116B cabinet looks great!

[BDM]

I might need to test them against each other on a much shorter antenna. But on the 150' long wire, there's little difference. The difference is more obvious on the SW bands, especially up high.

[Doug Houston]

A more accurate test of the set's performance would be to measure the AGC voltage coming off of the detector of each set, receiving the same station with the same antenna. The AGC action of the set masks the true gain of it, but the output of the detector tells how much gain the set had before the detector. I'm sure that the 116 has lots more gain than the 650, but the AGC in it pulls back more on the reins, and that causes the 116 to appear to have the same gain.

Get a VTVM, and connect it to the detector outputs in as nearly the same on each set, then see what it says. There should be a difference.

This is why you need an indicator of receiver output when you align it. The audio output of a radio is no accurate indicator of resonance when you are peaking the alignment. True, it was the way you indicated before the late thirties, but VTVM's were almost unknown much before the forties. It's even possible with a 20,000 ohm per volt meter to measure the detector's output. On a 20 volt scale for instance, the resistive load of the meter would be 400,000 ohms, and the detector could survive with that easily. If you look at the circuits of the old Hammarlund communication sets, the "S" meter is actually a straight voltmeter across the detector output.

[BDM]

Doug, great post. I'm going to pull it out to do a few other things. I'll test it in this manner also as you've stated.

[Texasrocker]

sometimes, I have found a "weaker" pentagrid-converter tube can also produce different results, but then again, sometimes not enough change to really matter. Having a extra stage always helps as Ron mentioned. One of the very-best designed AM band only receiver chassis I ever ran across for both selectivity & sensitivity, was the early 50s Silvertone 6-tube AC/DC sets utilizing a factory installed tapped- ferrite rod antenna!! They were ugly bakelight cabinets, in models 2014, 2015, & and 2016 depicting different color cabinets, but lordy mercy, they are great performers for "off the shelf" cheap ac/dc sets!! Hallicrafters high $$ long distance AM reception designed sets dont even keep up with them!!!!
I didnt mean to get off-topic (brands) here, I love all my "beautiful" vintage Philcos also!!
The Silvertones models 2014, 5, & 6 bakelights sell very cheap on ebay! For receiving long-distant stations over 1000 miles away at night, you techs would be amazed at these Silvertone receivers when fully restored! No longwire antenna needed! Just rotate the radio for best reception!Sometimes, the engineers just get a perfect match on chassis-design, and they sure did on the 53 model Silvertones indeed!!! Try one, you will definately be impressed all across the dial after sunset,, Guaranteed!! The performance of these simple AC/DC sets will leave you techs in "awe" once you restore one,if you do, even for long distance daytime reception as well!!

[Doug Houston]

You'll find that the sets sold by department stores from mail order will need to be good performers. They were bought by residents of outlying areas where reception was hard to pull in. Exactly who had made the sets that Tex tells about above is unknown at this point. Sears had their own radio manufacturing plant, but for how long, I don't know now. It was Colonial Radio, and they built a lot of SRCo sets. There were RCA sets with the Silvertone name as well as even some Wells-Gardner, who supplied a lot of Montgomery Ward models. I have one of the W-G 16 tube Airline sets, and I expect that it will be hard to beat for reception.

It would be interesting to make the detector output measurement on those little fellers that Tex describes, and see how they stack up against other similar sets.

One of the well-known RCA sets from 1946 is the 56X5. It's an AA5+1 set, and purportedly a "12,000 miler" (if I have my mileage right). It isn't bad on AM Broadcast, and must have an external antenna for SW reception. But RCA fan that I am, I fail to see the basis for claim to any fabulous distant reception. You'd expect the SW band to be abuzz with stations, and it's anything but that. The 12000 miles could mean that one of those sets was carried on an airliner trip of 12,000 miles.

[MinnesotaHam]

Thanks to Tex' glowing report on the 2014/15/16---I purchased a 2014 via ARF and received it Saturday.
Plugged her in tonight and immediately I was hearing stations I don't hear on my other AA5 sets such as Kansas City (I'm in Minneapolis).
I've not had time to DX with it much, but I'm hearing an old familiar sound: two or more nighttime power only stations on same freq from out of state.

Tell me how you want detector output measured and perhaps others here can offer some comparisons.

[BDM]

Hey guys. I made another vid of the 650 showing it in operation on all bands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbcQUkTRZgY