[Guest]

Hello All. I have been collecting radios for a few years .At first it was 1940's and 50's radios and phonographs.But then I discovered these enormous late 1920's early 30's consoles.(chassis)I absolutely love globe tubes (totally different from shoulder style etc.!!)Anyways I recently aquired a rusty old 24 inch long chassis(unknown model)It has star shaped tube socket punchouts and was told this probably was a Philco.So I looked it up in a book (Radio set socket guide 1921-1935) and found actually under "Philadelphia storage battery co." a model 62 with the same tube layout 2 24A ,1 27, 2 71A ,1 80 tubes.Is there anyone out there who is familiar with this chassis and who could give me some tips on restoring it?I think it may have those block capacitors under the chassis.I definitely want to keep the interstage transformers and chokes etc. original even if I have to rewind them.Also can a Philco model G electrodynamic speaker with output transformer be used with 71A's push pull?One more thing about the paper capacitors in the power supply.Is it known if the tar or pitch in the capacitor can could have a high sulphur content etc. causing deterioration of the capacitors?I do not want to replace these if I do not have to,at least not right away ,of course I will put a fuse or fuses under the chassis and any radio this old I run in series with a 200 watt lightbulb and never leave unattended when playing.I will also be restoring a model 20 later on. Thanks for any info on this.

[Texasrocker]

Hello Thermionman. Welcome! What you have is a 1929-30 era TRF type Philco receiver. If you want to try to re- energize all those old caps with a lighbulb as a "test" is your choice indeed. However, using a variac with ac amp-meter on the ac -linecord would be a better choice in slow-upping todays ac into the radio as a test. Most likely,all the old caps need replacing to accomodate todays modern higher ac line voltages you will be using. If nothing else, I would highly suggest replacing the filter caps section first.
If youve already checked all the globe tubes filaments, and they are still good, most likely the tubes are still useable sometimes. If the #80 rectifier tube has any internal shorts, using your lightbulb on one-side of the ac line in series, should show any defaults there, and protect the set somewhat during initial powerup. The set should operate at approx / or under 1- ampere,( after tube filaments warmup) if orig caps/& resistors components are still good.Add a fuse for protection also. They are cheap in comparison to the alternative. However, the future "reliability" of all those old orig caps are surely questionable at best.
I did a quick search for the JF Riders schematic of your vintage Philco model 62 set,( didnt have time to look closely) and found it to be a vintage Canadian made Philco model? Perhaps not. I own a fully restored US made model #65 that I restored several yrs ago. One of my favorites in my collection indeed!
JF Riders lists the Philco model(s) # 62 & model #65 as the same chassis electronically. Im not sure if your set has a orig 25 cycle a.c. trans or not? If so, the B+ voltage could be offset abit, but easily corrected from ac trans CT to chassis ground by adding a suitable resistor in series if need be if I remember correctly.
In any case, heres a link to the JF Riders schemat:
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/pagesbymodel...029641.pdf

.... hope this info helps! The orig caps-sections can be "re-built" to look orig, with new smaller size dependable replacements!
Best of luck in restoring your vintage Philco!! ol Tx

[Arran]

I would recommend replacing all of the paper condensers if you intend to use this set, especially the filter condensers. Powering the set up with a dim bulb tester is normally a good idea but paper condensers can not be reformed, if they are bad they are bad they can not be revived or made usable again, however it will limit enough current to prevent any further damage if a short already exists. Fortunately it is very easy to hide new polyester film condensers inside the old casings, the Bakelite blocks are easily melted out with a heat gun or toaster oven. Getting at the ones in the potted metal can is a little more difficult as there are many more connections involved, but at least the factory installed a terminal board on the bottom of the can.
Another lesser concern is the resistors, they are dog bone dot coded affairs, but Philco used their own resistor code at this time so you will need to decode the originals to use RMA/EMA replacements with the coloured bands. Figuring out the wattages can be tricky sometimes, the best guess can be made based on what circuit they are used.
Best Regards
Arran

[kruc]

The only picture I can find of a 62 is at northernelectric.ca/radios/philco_62/philco_62.htm. From the picture I'd guess that the filter cap is the big square box next to the power transformer. I've done three Philco 20 filter caps, the first two I drilled out with a 1/2" bit in a drill press and the third I tried melting out in the oven. If you decide to melt yours out, I'd recommend adding legs to the cap made from threaded rod a little longer than the cap is tall so the mess has room to fall out. Drilling is labor intensive and you run the risk of tweaking the case or bulging it from the inside out. I used a twist drill bit as a spade bit could be dangerous.
The schematic shows #5, #6, and #10 are caps and resistors, .1uf and 250 ohms. Some bakelite blocks have both parts in the same case. Make note of which lead is which, then unsolder the wires that come out of the case to the lugs on top. That'll make it easier to get the guts out. I dug mine out with a X-acto blade, then cleaned out the remaining wax with carb cleaner or gasoline. I used imitation Orange Drop 600volt caps from AES, they fit in the blocks but the leads need to be bent to fit. There's some talk that cracking the case where the leads exit the cap can cause moisture to enter over time, so use a pair of needle nose pliers and be careful. The grid caps on the 24 tubes are another place to be careful, particularly if the clips are stuck. The metal cap on the tube is just glued on, so be very gentle removing the clips from the caps. Don't ask me how I found that out. I used self-stick numbers on everything under the chassis as it makes it easier to follow the schematic, particularly on the filter and transformer lugs. Since replacing the filter cap isn't your first priority, make sure it doesn't get warm in operation.
Dave

[Guest]

Thankyou Texasrocker ,Arran and Dave.I should have mentioned their are no tubes in the chassis just the # 's marked nesr the sockets ,I am putting my own tubes in, nice globes including a blueglass 24 A!! that will look cool.Thanks for the advice Dave on removing grid caps because some of my other radios have these and may be very hard to remove.And yes sure enough that is my chassis (radio)on the Northernelectric radio site!!It is a tabletop metal radio not a console(low /high boy).Anyways I want to build my own console or box with a lid that lifts up so you can look at the radio and maybe use a large speaker and maybe a ported enclosure to bring up the volume and bass frequencies ,at least for now.If I do replace filter capacitors in power supply I want to use huge oil filled or paper caps not tiny electrolytics on this radio anyways if it will work.I like bulky weighty components ,very old world like FRANKENSTEIN movie H.G.Wells......etc. Chris

[Arran]

One think that I should mention, sometimes it isn't necessary to completely melt the contents of the can to get the condensers out, often all that you need to do is heat it enough to melt the wax or tar around the outside and then you can pull out the bulk of the material with a pair of pliers.
Best Regards
Arran

[Guest]

Hello again all! What is a good temperature to put your oven at to melt the tar in the cans (roughly)?Thanks again for any info.Chris

[kruc]

I heated my latest Philco 20 filter to 200-250 for about 45 mins until the wax at the sides was bubbly, and the stuff still wouldn't come out with a pair of needle nose. I was using a foil lined stainless serving tray from a buffet table under it. That's when I decided the next time I'll support it high enough so the mess melts and falls out on it's own. I replaced those 4 caps with plastic units that'll hopefully last longer than I do. There's plenty of oil filled motor starting capacitors out there in the 1 and 2uf range that should be just what you're looking for. I used 400v caps in the filters of my first two 20s and they seem to work okay, but I haven't measured the voltage on them with the radio on. This 20 I'm using 630v caps which are about half the size of the 400s. One thing I did to keep track of which lug is which on the filter was to unsolder R15 from lug 5 of R25 and leave the other end soldered to lug 5 on the filter. That way I could clean the tar off the filter, then add labels relative to lug 5. I replaced all resistors except R8 with 2 watt units, probably overkill but there's plenty of room for them.
Dave

[amosbanjo]

Hey Kruc - I did the filter on my Model 20 after reading your post. My wife said that if I stink up her oven, I would have to buy her a new stove. I decided to use the smoke/cooker outside. I heated it to 300 deg and left for 1.5 hours. It dribbled out into the old pie I had under it, but ALL the contents dumped right out, no problem. I cleaned the residue out with solvent and ended up with a nice clean can (whatever that's worth). No stink either.