[morzh]

Rdnzl

Also, even if this conversation veered off the original course a bit towards the "flat listening", I thought it might be interesting to hear out the opinions of a crowd different from that on Audiokarma

[Phlogiston]

It is easier to have a flat response and little need for equalization if your components are not creating the need.

In a short list of trouble makers are:

Poor crossovers. Even great speakers work poorly with cheap crossovers. First, avoid electrolytic caps. They have their place but it isn't in a crossover. Manufactures save a lot using them. You can upgrade some speakers with a new crossover. Avoid iron core chokes ( practical up to a hennery or two).

Ported speakers. Customers can be impressed with booming base especially if their old system could not muster enough power to make some. BUT a port in an enclosure is going to give a peak at only one freq (based on time and distance). Some manufactures use a flabby bass speaker which produces bass but has poor accuracy/control. See "wave radio" by Blows.

Bi-amp/sub woofer. Freq below 50hz are just not going to come from that 8" base without issues. Consider what your amp must do to produce those low freq too. A 5 watt program might need another 50 or 100 watts for that low base. Use a separate amp and speaker/enclosure. This is a good job for transistorized amps save the tubes for the mains.  An active crossover in your preamp is wonderful. (Ever noticed the preamp out jumpers in good 70's equipment?)(phasing control is also an advantage with many bi-amped systems). This topic could easily be expanded.

[morzh]

Cornwall and some other speakers has 34Hz-20kHz response with 4db at the ends.
One might say it is not that great in the base department but then I like what I hear. I know some people buy center woofer when using Cornwall (which was designed as a cent`er speaker for Klipschorns itself) but them having a 15" woofer, I hear no lack of base. I am pretty sure I could gain some more base by deploying a separate woofer but then I am not sure I need it as I quite like what I hear.


As for electrolytic in crossovers, I am not sure how they work there long term at all as they have to handle AC which they are not supposed to handle. I think there is the same problem with Philco 38-690 which had 1uF electrolytic in series with twittersl; I remember us here discussing that. It is not even about them being worse caps for this purpose than some other caps, it is just that they are not even supposed to be used in this circuitry by definition. Unles of course one uses non-pol ones, but then there are better options.

[rdnzl]

I run when these conversations begin. When people start telling other people how to listen to their equipment, and why they should or shouldn't do what they are doing, I'm out. It's pure audio snobbery.

I posted a pic of my Sansui 9090DB one time, and GAWD FORBID, I had the loudness switch on, and my treble kicked up two notches. Thought I'd never hear the end of it.

Bottom line is...what sounds good to you is good enough. There is no perfect room, and no perfect set of ears. Unless you have my ears, get off my lawn!

[morzh]

you are absolutely right, it is very personal.
In fact I started a topic on Karma about rolling the tubes on my McIntosh and how it had almost zero effect, and guess what, I got a lot of support there and no snobbery at all. Many people agreed and many said they were waiting 'till someone said that. That was very recently, like maybe 3 months ago.

I don't see here that anyone dicittes how to listen. For my money, tone control in radios is there for a reason. Radios are not exactly HiFi devices and they do need tone control; the same Philco hi end line with variable IF band has it there for that very reason, coupled with treble control.

But here we are in the habit of expressing opinions, not pushing them onto others. On the audiofiles' forums folks are more adamant about their views but then there it is part religion, while here we are still hobbyists.

[Phlogiston]

And as I mentioned, age of your ears makes a difference too and even more so depending on the type of music you listen to.

My 9090DB has the pre-out going to an active crossover which has the sub-out and a line back into the 9090 final amp. The sub out which is also phase controlled (for your room) as well as frequency, drives a David Hafler 500 with the input divided into both channels. This yields about 1000W into a 4 ohm, 15" Rockford Fosgate dual voice coil woofer firing down at the floor. The enclosure is an end table with a granite top and weighs about 200 lbs . It is unadvisable to put a lamp on the table. The main speakers have Scan-speak tweeters and 5 inch mids with a 10" Seas  aluminum cone mid-woofer. I built the enclosures and crossovers. This is my office system. And yet, I too avoid audio-pile forums.

This system can also instantly switch the final from the Sansui to a Fisher X-100 tube amp. I did this just to compare the two (tube/SS final) and just left it that way. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE??? Well, yes but it isn't much. A SS to tube pre-amp switch would be fun too and possibly make more difference. Hum - - -

This is not the system for which I have devoted the most effort. That one is another story altogether. These were built at low cost and lots of work.

P.S. Visitors to the radio museum are welcome to check-out the system at the shop, which is better than the one above. Bring a CD/file that you like.