[Texasrocker]

Today, I was stripping down parts from a old 6-channel 1947 RCA vintage tube theatre amp/ mic & phono mixer that I recently acquired in a batch of old tube amp gear.It is a old 4- 807s in PP amp. Got some good spare tubes, and other good spare-parts out of it.
Much to my surprise, I ran across two ( still test good) vintage Western Electric # 618 B MC ( moving-coil) type input transformers.
My wife noticed there is one listed on epay now for sale w/ starting price of $2 K.

After she did some more ( very limited avail info),..research on these items on the net, one ( same # 618B vintage input trans) made by Western Electric sold on ebay back on May 1, 09,... for $1500 + shipping.

Supposedly, these trans are considered the "holy-grail" for high-ended phonos input trans to tube amps type audiophools overseas?

Thought I would ask you vintage tube hi-fiers here, if you have ever run across such items before on vintage amps chassis, and if all the "hoopla" is worthy? Just as most here, I usually only repair/restore vintage radios & amps, & build some of my own tube amps/rec quality comp-limiters, etc. occasionally. If anyone has any info they could share on these vintage Western Elec input trans, I would appreciate it greatly! Any good vintage tube hifi-forums you guys know of where I can find out more info? I am looking to sell these items, and really dont like the ebay rip-off commission on sellers, "if" these trans are really that rare in the first-place??

Many Thanks in advance for your opinions & expertise in vintage hifi input transformers!!
ol Tx

[exray]

Much of this pricing has to do with the Asian Fascination of top of the line American audio gear. I don't have any experience in the field but I suspect Brag Factor has a lot to do with the pricing. Kinda like buying a US-made Hummer in Japan or Korea.

I have a friend in JA who is into the top American antique radios. AK10 breadboards, brass/tipped 01As. Price is no object to him...just having them is the big deal.

Sell, Papa, sell!

[Texasrocker]

Thanks Exray!! Hows everything in PR? Always great hearing from you! These trans,we would prefer to sell these items in the US States, but probably not as much $ to Yen available, if in fact, these items are really that rare.
Keeping our fingers-crossed?, that these items will find respective new owners, and are really rare?..and we can put the funds into our vintage-electronics future endevours!

Sending a "virtual" Red Stripe Beer your ways!!! ol Tx.

[kruc]

The old WE theatre systems bring very high prices. You might wanna do some more research on prices as you may get enough to fund your retirement with some of the gear you are currently liquidating. Some of your stuff may be worth more whole than parted out. As exray pointed out, the Asian market has created an unbelievable demand for old US tube equipment. $2k for a transformer seems high to us tron chasers, but as you know it's worth what someone wants to pay for it. You may want to research the issues with selling to Asia such as duties, shipping, seeing if ePay has a Japanese site, etc. It may be a temporary PITA, but could be very lucrative for you it in the long run.
Dave

[Texasrocker]

Thanks for the tips Dave! I dont have much vintage Western Electric gear in this batch. Mostly vintage RCA, Gates, Heathkit, Bell, Altec, Knight, Eico, Bogen, Ampex type early 40s-late 50s equip.I have 1 early 30s Presto Recording Studio amplifier. Its huge,heavy indeed, uses 3 different potted type separate power trans on one chassis for the filaments voltages, & uses 807s audio tubes in PP. Im only parting-out items already missing vital parts. Everything thats restorable, Im keeping together for later restorations. I have accumulated many spare trans, chokes,sockets, etc from the previously-robbed chassis' in the batch. Still have another batch to pickup from the shed all this was stored in over many yrs. It all came from a closed down Radio & Amplifier repair shop after they lost their lease in the early 60s.
The Western Electric input transformers had been installed as replacements of orig UTC input trans in a old RCA theatre amp. I could see where the old ones had been installed prior. Also, the 3 remaining UTC input trans are also still good. Dont know if there is also a market for the UTC brand overseas. All these xformers off the old RCA are the small-round sealed can types ( isolation shielding), potted ultra-linear types. I never realized a market existed for these type old parts overseas.
These old items are also yielding some good vintage tubes by Mullard, Telefunken, RCA & Sylvania.I consider myself very fortunate getting all this gear, but I dont plan on retiring anytime soon! If anyone here needs any good spare parts, I will be happy to help here if I can!

I sure appreciate all your suggestions indeed!
Sincerely, Tx.

[kruc]

Tex, it sounds as though you've got quite a stash. There's a market for what you've got, especially the UTC stuff as it was good quality and hasn't been made in years. I'd guess the scratchbuilders are the ones looking for the old stuff. I was making a crystal radio a few years ago that called for a UTC A-12 and the price and availability led me to use whatever I could find. I just did a ePay A-12 search and there's 3 listings, 1 in OZ and 2 in China. Prices range from $100 to nearly $150 each. The tubes have their niche market also, if you've noticed the 300B ranges from $80 for imports to over $1k for the original WE version. The demand for the 300B was so high that WE started making them again. I'm sure you've seen the same type of obsession from musicians with their amps.
Since you made the spare parts offer, I'm looking for something similiar to the A-12 for the crystal set. 100k primary and 600 ohm secondary.
Dave

[Arran]

I don't see why a Western Electric transformer would be any different then one made by Thordarson, Jefferson, Hammond, or any of the other makers. There isn't really any magic involved in a transformer, if the iron is the same, the windings are the same, then it doesn't matter what brand it is as they were all wound by machine. Given the advances in materials and production methods a brand new Hammond transformer of the same specs is probably better then a W.E unit any day, but it's the brand identity factor. We are talking a group of people that pay $1500 for a power cord so common sense doesn't come into play.
There was a bit of a scam for a few years in selling the amplifier chassis from Microsynchronos Victor models from 1929-31 as Western Electric amplifiers, some sleazeballs were even trying to sell the speakers as W.E made units even though Victor made their own and G.E held most of the patents. I have heard that the market has long since dried up on that since our Japanese friends became wise to it.
Best Regards
Arran

[Doug Houston]

Before you go tearing up all of the audio equipmant you have, you'd best research the value of the complete pieces on hand. RCA theater amplifiers go for big bucks in the auctions. I have several, and you can bet your sox, that they stay intact, and operating. I never sell the stuff; I'm a packrat.

It sounds like you may be cutting down a forest of walnut trees for firewood.

So Western Electric transformers are no different that, possibly some other brand, huh? Assuming they are no different/beter that others, the big issue is; They have that NAME on them. But anything with that name on it is holy grail. I've often said that a pile of dog droppings with the W.E. name on would bring fortunes from the orientals.

You're right about the shyster in Canada, was peddling Victor amplifiers, as Western Electric products, which they were not. I had mentioned this on another board, and got a very indignant reply about how they were Western Electric products. I think that they guy was the scammer who was tearing up Victor radios, and selling them to the Japs for big bucks. Looks like a lot of buyers over there got the green weenie from that dude.

The fact is that W.E. transformers are better than many of even the high end equivalents from other companies. That's why the transformers were changed to Western Electric. I'm inclined to suspect that RCA may have used Stancor or Thordarson transformers originally. You have to remember that theater sound before WW II was limited to about 6500 cycles, because optical sound couldn't produce what magnetic sound could. It was most uncommon for transformers by UTC to be used in original equipmant.

[Texasrocker]

Many Thanks for all your replies on this topic!

Doug H., no worries!, Im not parting-out any vintage Western Elec amps at all! I found the rare W.E. branded input transformer(s) retro-fitted into a circa 1947 era RCA auditorium 6 ch mixer/amp combo. Im being very careful what I "part-out". The only vintage amps chassis' Im parting-out the chassis are those of mfgrs such as DuKane,Rauland,Bell,vintage late 50s tube type schools/ grocery stores intercom/ background music type vintage tube PA equip.

Im saving all the vintage RCA amps,any marked W.E, Altec ,RCA, Gates broadcast vintage gear(s), for complete restorations in my spare-time, if I ever get any in my retirement days, if I ever make it that far.

I revisited the vintage amps "shed-find" again today.Yellowjackets waspsnests are now massive in size!! I took over a can of Spectricide wasp & hornet spray. That was fun!! Theres still plenty of vintage-inventory in there,but I havent uncovered any 1930s era vintage W.E. type ( movie theatre) type equip yet. I highly doubt finding any.

I pulled out 4 more vintage mid- 50s era matching rack-mount DuKanes amps ( 4 6V6 in PP types) today, and a old Ampex model 375 rec-studio type amp circa 1952 while giving the wasps a visit. Ive done some research on the Ampex mod 375 on the net, and found out it was recording-studio quality amp mfgd in 1952, and "synced" with the early Ampex tape reel-to-reel recorders "heads" to control motor speed for playback & record functions. It was called the Ampex "60 cycle" amp. Any further info you guys could provide my way, is very-highly appreciated!! There is somemore vintage RCA amps in amongst the yellow-jackets also! Hopefully those will yield a few more high-quality vintage "ultra-linear" transformers as well? Not sure tho. I consider myself very fortunate getting access to this vintage tube gear "find" indeed! My vintage parts-bins are getting restocked one day at a time. I visually identified either a RCA Radiola 17, or mod 18s 2-separate chassis in the shed as well today. Thats my 1st sighting of anything radio-related other than the vintage test-equip I found and restored already.
Hoping to find a simbilance of a AK mod 10 breadboard set in the shed, but I dont think I will ever be that lucky in life!
fighting wasps has never been such fun before!

[Arran]

As I mentioned before the bucks paid for Western Electric seems to be based on brand identity, much of it was commercial and military grade so it was likely better then average, but still not enough to justify what some of the oriental folks were paying. Then again they seem to think, as many audiophools do, that true high fidelity can only be achieved through using obscure single ended triodes that were obsolete in 1934. I have a P.A amp that was made by W.E's Canadian cousin, Northern Electric, I wonder if they would pay an outrageous amount for that unit?
I remember that during the transistor radio boom there were ridiculous prices being paid for any pre 1960 set with the name "SONY" on it, not that there was anything great about them, but it was that brand identity thing again. A lot of people don't see to know that the earlier Japanese products weren't that great at all, a lot of it was junk that would make the Chinese stuff look good.
Best Regards
Arran

P.S My favorite way of getting rid of a wasp nest is to wait until dusk and to take a flame to the bottom, the entrance is at that end but the nest burns upward like a Roman candle cooking the little devils as they try to get out. Not always practical unless you have a metal shed but fun.

[Guest]

Hello all.

I know this is an old thread... - I'm just wondering if the wasps have settled.. after all that rigorous shed re-arrangement!
(:

Also, in sincerity, Is anyone familiar with the AWA ("Amalgamated Wireless Australia") version of the old RCA limiting amplifiers?

I'm looking for a schematic (and any other tidbits of info) on these, having pickup up the AWA "G58-250" version recently (apparently a licensed design from RCA's "BA6A" model Limiting Amp). Should be a good unit, with a bit of a service / overhaul.

I can post pic's if interested.

Cheers,
Evan (first post here!)