[noiseguy]

Need help IDing the pictured console. I think it's a '29 Lowboy with a model 65 chassis...?

[Image: http://www.hondaspree.net/other/chas1.JPG]
[Image: http://www.hondaspree.net/other/cab1.JPG]

Thanks. Wife drug this out of her great-grandmother's basement in Kewanee, IL. Any thoughts on the relative merits of these operationally vs. the model 87's?

[Chuck Schwark]

That's possibly a Model 65, 76 or 87 cabinet. The chassis is a Model 65 from 1929. The cabinet may not be be the original. Either the wooden grille work was removed from the stock 65 cabinet, or the cabinet is from a Model 76 or Model 87. Models 40, 65, 76, and the early 95 used that cabinet - the 76 and 87 came standard without the extra grille work.

Here is the Model 65:
[Image: http://radioatticarchives.com/images/p/P...m_Boyd.jpg]

[noiseguy]

OK, it's a Model 65 then. The grillwork was removed (by me) to repair the cloth and reglue the grill. I just wanted to confirm it; the model number had flaked off the back off the chassis.

[Ron Ramirez]

Actually, Model 87 lowboys had the grille cutouts too, at first. And I've seen a Model 76 that had them.

I'm thinking that Philco removed the grille cutouts and switched to the tapestry cloth in the lowboys late in 1929 or possibly around January 1930. We see some 87 sets with tapestry cloth and no grille cutouts because it remained in the lineup for awhile after the 76 and 95 came out in the fall - the 65 was dropped at that time, however.

[Chuck Schwark]

I was going by the pictures in the the 'book' Ron.
Philco never made it easy to re-create their logic to design and marketing.

[Ron Ramirez]

Yeah, but that old book was printed in 1993, and while I would never claim to know it all, I have learned a little more since then.

Totally agree regarding Philco's design and marketing logic, or lack thereof.

[rjm]

I have finally found all the parts for my 87. Thanks to Ron and this phorum. The cabinet pictured is identical to my 87. The chassis is different though. Ron you say that this and mine are later productions due to no grill work and I see no markings to suggest there was one, but restoring the chassis I have a resistor that according to the schematics only came on early production versions. Another Philco part we need it, we don't, we do.

[noiseguy]

OK, so I grabbed the online schematics for the Model 65, pulled the tubes and opened up the bottom. This is what I see:

[Image: http://www.hondaspree.net/other/guts.JPG]

Couple of new questions:

- Schematic shows 11 caps, I see 6. One steel box with one wire on left, 3 things that look like small photo tubes, 2 metal tubes the size of half a cigarette. Where are the rest? (The 11-count on the schematic don't include the 4 in the condenser box.)

- I also see 3 things that look like like the larger caps but are probably resistors (two metal rivets with wires, ground to case.) Are these resistors? If so, do these need to be replaced like the caps?

- There's a large tube on the right hand side of the pic, looks like two coils with a center tap. Looks like electrolytic corrosion on each end, and a small wire connecting the two coils at the center has dropped loose. I can't find this part anywhere on the schematic. What's going on with the corrosion?

I've grabbed a copy of an "old time" radio repair manual, and have ordered some more complete schematics. Hopefully that will clear some things up.

Thanks.

[Chuck Schwark]

Great! The underside is very clean and appears untouched. You're in luck!

The four brown phenolic tubes with solder lugs on them are resistor/cap combo's: parts 5, 6, 10 and 27. They can be re-stuffed and remain original looking.

The big wire-wound ceramic power resistor is the "BC" resistor, part 24. It is shown in two sections on the schematic; one part is the filament winding center-tap for the 45 tubes and the other is in the power supply output resistor network.

[noiseguy]

In terms of starting the troubleshooting on this radio, does it make sense to first disconnect the shorted caps from ground and fire it up to check the power supply, or should I replace all the caps first and then try firing it up? I assume I should leave out all the tubes until I'm done going through the bottom side.

I've already found one shorted cap, one open choke, and something odd going on with the BC resistor (it looks like the two sides of the wound resistor are supposed to be electrically connected in the center; they are not.) Unit is supposedly dead; I wasn't planning to try bringing it back up until I'd gone through it first.

[Chuck Schwark]

No. Disconnected parts will caue even more troubles. Just like removing parts from your car's engine and trying to start it.

As a standard procedure and general rule for any antique radio repairs, all defective parts should be replaced before any power-ups. Replace all leaky caps. Check all coils and transformers for continuity of windings, etc. Replace any out of tolerance resistors (+/-20% max of nominal value).

NOTE: This set should have the speaker connected when power is applied or power supply damage or damage to other circuits may result. The field coil missing from the circuit causes abnormal B+ rise.

[noiseguy]

OK, now that I've gone through it I've found 4 transformers out on this guy. I've located a used model 65 power supply, but still need to track down the rest (including whatever's blown on the speaker.)

Couple of question on this:
- The second filter choke is open. Specs are 150H, 10ma, 4000 ohms winding. Hammond makes a 150H, 8ma, 3700 ohm model. Is this close enough?

- Can't find any info on the push-pull transformer to the two 45 tubes. I believe this is called the "audio interstage" transformer; it sits between the 27 tube and the 2 - 45's. #17 on the schematic. What can I use on these? Looks like Hammond has a handful of "generic" varieties.

[rjm]

Hi, I too have a bad interstage transformer on my 87. I ordered the hamond 124a they say it will work. As for the chokes check Play things of past on the resourse page. When looking for the interstage trans I saw Philco chokes for model 87 I believe they are the same for your 65 and other models. The Philco work bench web sight gives part #'s. Just look under PHILCO RADIO PART VALUES. Check them out it won't hurt

Hope this helps, Richard

[noiseguy]

Well, I've rounded up the bits for the chassis and am trying to sort it out. The #3 center tap to the 80 tube was gone on the main power transformer; I located a used replacement which is now in place.

There's some funky wiring running to the 80 tube that doesn't match the schematic. The #1 and #2 from the xfrmer are supposed to go to the heater for the 80, with #1 from xfrmer running over to the condenser block. #4 and 5 on the xfrmer go to the other side of the tube, with #3 (the center tap) going to ground.

On this radio, #1 and #2 are wired to the 80, but that's it. The #4 and #5 are wired to the 80, but the #5 goes to the condenser block, rather than the #1.

Follow all that? Maybe a way to keep it working with an open #3 center tap?

Question is, should I rewire it back to original, or leave it alone?

[rjm]

I was just looking at schematics on this sight and on Nostalgia Air. Here and on theirs, show one set 65 w/ 1&2 as heater. 1 going to condenser. The other schematic 65-62 showing the same terminals, but # them 4 & 5. One shows #1 from trans to 80 heater then to cond. And the other shows #4 doing the same. Both are the same coil in the trans. You might have the 25hz. model 65-62. Check the schematics for that one, there is other differences too.

65-62, is the 25hz. model. and 65 is the 60hz. model.

Richard