[pete5383]

Hello everyone!

I'm Pete, and I just picked up a beautiful Philco 50-1724 that I would like to get back to its former glory. I got it from an old fella who had it stored in a shed for years. I will caveat is that I'm quite a novice and very ignorant; I only got this thing because I immediately fell in love with it. I wanted to start this thread so I could chronical my journey.

So, I followed along with some directions I found, and got ahold of an old manual, and after some careful testing, I was able to turn it on and not have it explode. The radio works, which is nice! The record player (Philco M-20) turns, but appears to not be sending signals. It clearly needs a new needle, but probably more than that. But I think I can work my way through that.

However, I do have one VERY dumb question, and I can't find an answer anywhere. When I move the tone arm in to place it on a record, it moves freely and nicely. But when I try to move it back to its home, there is a noticeable "catch." Although it does move back, the pressure I have to put on it doesn't "feel" right, like I'm forcing it. I think this is from the trip finger (?) holding it up, but I can't find anything in the manual about what the right way is to move it back. It seems like I'm missing a button or something that would allow the tone arm to swing back without any catch.

Thank you so so much for any help I could get with this, and future, stupid questions!

[klondike98]

Welcome to the Phorum!


Can’t answer your question but am sure someone will chime in with thoughts.

[Ron Ramirez]

Hi,

This may, or may not, prove helpful.

https://philcoradio.com/library/download...-final.pdf

It is the service manual for the M-20 record changer used in the 50-1724. As it is not an operation manual, it may not have exactly what you need. As record changers are a bit out of my league, I'm afraid I can't answer your question directly.

[pete5383]

Thank you both so much for the warm welcome! I will take a look at the M-20 manual and hopefully that will point me in the right direction.

[radiorich]

Hello Pete,
Good luck Pete!

Sincerely Richard

[MrFixr55]

Hi, Pete,

I am not familiar with the Philco M20. My experience (from a long time ago) is with V-M and Garrards, but generally when the changer is in "Neutral" (not auto cycling), the tone arm should be free.

Inspect the unit. Try to not take the unit apart or you will have adjustments galore. If disassembly is required, matchmark adjustable parts.

Check for bent components, but more importantly, clean and lube per the manual. 70 -75 year old grease and even oil hardens. The 20 wt oil (SAE20, or even 3 in 1 Oil will soften the hardened grease until it can be removed. I don't know what is the best grease to substitute for the specified Texaco Cup Grease. Lubriplate is good but eventually hardens. Modern EP-2 non fibrous wheel grease may be a good substitute.

Your other 2 big issues are going to be the "tire" (capstan wheel) and the cartridge.

The V-M Website may have one compatible with the Philco changer. You may be able to freshen up the wheel by mounting in a drill and sand a little off it, but this may not be successful.

I believe that the cartridge is specific to Philco. The Cartridge is a "plug in" and there are contacts on the side that act as the movable portion of the "switch". The stationary parts are mounted on the tone arm. In addition, there is another switch on the speed selector. Ensure that the contacts are clean. However, the crystal in the cartridge is likely dead. The Philco Phanatics in the group will be able to provide info on repair / replacement of the cartridge. I am a bit too much of a hi fi nut to tolerate the sound of a crystal cartridge. I would be looking to sneak a Pickering or Shure in there and add an external preamp for a true FrankenPhilco. However, a modern ceramic cartridge from these new suitcase phonos or repro Antiques (Crosley, etc) may fit without too much butchery. You may even be able to fashion a mount that plugs in like the original cartridge. Try to have the needle angle and radius to be the same as the original.

[pete5383]

Thank you, MrFixr, that was super helpful! I will keep that all in mind as I work.

One quick question - you mentioned not to dissemble it, which...yeah, sounds like a huge amount of work. But would you recommend for or against removing the unit from the cabinet to work on it, or try to work on it in place? There is no "case" around it, so all the gears and what not are exposed on the bottom, so I'm a little hesitant, but I would love to get your opinion on it.

[GarySP]

From the little I have done with record players you should be safe taking the entire unit out to service it. Not sure how your player is mounted. Mine were small spacer bolts mounted with springs between the cabinet and the player. Removal is no issue, but disassembly will usually require re-alignment as MrFix55 mentioned. Take care and BE HEALTHY! Gary

[admin]

Pete,

Your second thread has been merged with this existing thread since it is on the same subject. Phorum rules state that multiple threads on the same subject are not allowed.

https://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=4586

Thank you, and carry on.

[MrFixr55]

Hi Pete, There should be no issue in removing the changer from the cabinet. The main thing to be concerned about is to not damage the tone arm, spindle or "Shelf" (the pedestal that supports the edge of the records). I can't remember how this was mounted (I had one as a 13 year old kid but that was more than 50 years ago) Most slightly newer turntables and changers are spring mounted with some sort of clip and washer assembly at the end of either 2 or 3 screws. When the phonograph or radio / phono was shipped, these screws were turned full CCW (counterclockwise), pulling the washer / clip up against the bottom of the mounting board, compressing the springs and preventing the changer from bouncing around and getting damaged. The installer would turn the screws full CW (clockwise),
allowing the changer to "float". From the pictures in the manual link that Ron Ramirez provided, it appears that the changer is mounted in this manner

Try the following:

If this is a tabletop unit, remove the lid, remove the cartridge to prevent damage and tie down the tonearm if it has no clip to hold it on a post. Verify that the platter is retained by a C Clip by attempting to lift it. It should stay in place. Find a large box, turn the entire cabinet upside down so that the changer is supported by the open box. Remove the bottom cover of the phono or radio / phono and observe the 3 screws described above. Remove the clips (If they are the "flip up" variety, then flip them up. Disconnect the cabling (there are usually plugs), and lift the cabinet off. If this is a console and not a table model, then work from the underside to remove it.

In all of the above operations, take care to not bend the spindle. When working on the underside, lay the unit upside down in a box large enough to protect the topside parts. Alternately, make a jig to hold the unit. Several ideas have appeared in the Phorum for large radio and TV Chassis.

Good Luck!

John "MrFixr55"

[MrFixr55]

Hi Pete,

Some more info that may be useful:

The Phono motor runs on 115V (OK, 120 now).  You can connect the motor circuit directly to a cord and connect to house current, but to help protect you from shock in case you come in contact with a bare connection, use an isolation transformer.  The M20 Manual Ron supplied will be helpful in figuring out the connections.

First off, check the Audio Input jack on the radio by connecting the output of a CD, MP3, etc. between Pin 1 or 3 (chassis ground) and pin 2 (the audio in.  Set the radio to phono.  The CD  / MP3 should play loud and proud.  If not, troubleshoot.  If the sound is good, then work your way back and inject the signal through the "STD  / 45" Switch and finally the tone arm.  If all this is good, then the cartridge is dead.  The cartridge can be checked by connecting a DVM across the terminals and scratch the needle.  Try both AC and DC.  An output of about 0.5v or more should be produced.  If no voltage is produced, then the cartridge is dead.  I wouldn't bother trying to measure resistance, there is no specification for that. 

Note that the cartridge is in series with a 0.01 uF Cap.  This is likely because the changer was used with several different radios or radio / TVs including some "Hot Chassis" (transformerless) models and the capacitor provided a modicum of safety.  This cap like all caps in the radio should be replaced, as they are 70 years old.