[Sam samuelian]

Hi guys,

If you've read any of my other posts you know I purchased a 38-690 which became a money pit and after spending 3,400 I'm still far from satisfied. The restorer, I think, was way over his head with this set. It came to me with hum so loud you can't enjoy it, poor tone, and only fair selectivity. The refinish job was only fair and even the rolltop sticks to badly you think it might break if you move it! My only hope is to spend more to have it fixed right and sell it, I think.

NOW---I have offered to me what has been described as a "museum quality" 37-690 with great original finish, all original parts, and total electronic restoration by one of the top technicians, and performs beautifully with excellent sound.

To avoid getting caught in another mistake, I'd appreciate some frank advice. j

1-I know the 37 is rarer (how much so?) but is it more desirable? One can have a rare set but if it's not desirable, then chances are it never will be. I'm just guessing but the 38 might be more desirable since it arguably has a more handsome look/

2-I have seen prices on these from "as is" to excellent to fully restored vary from 300.00 up to 4,500.00 refinished.

3-This set is priced at $3,700.00 Is that top dollar and is there any hope of at least getting back my investment down the line?

4-Many here feel the 37 is a better set.

5-The best restorer I know wants $1,500.00 for a full job, the best refinisher $1,500.00--so that's 3K already not even including cost of the set.

6-Do you think, as I suspect, that refinished sets these days will bring more since the average person (and not purists like many of us) want everything looking like new?

7-Which one do you think a wife would like? (that's just a joke!!)

I would appreciate any info you can provide. After buying about ten radios since I got back into this hobby I have learned two thing--think before you leap and unless a radio is of the highest rarity, more will come along!!

Sam

[codefox1]

If you have that kind of money to spend, buy a fully restored and refinished radio that you like that comes with a warranty. What is the purpose of buying an old set and then farming out the work to others?

Most folks on this forum buy and restore old sets for a hobby, or a self liquidating hobby. Yes you can make a modest living doing this stuff, and if you're really good you can make a good living. I think most of us have day jobs or are retired.

[Ron Ramirez]

Sam

I saw your post while I was at work and was going to reply at length after I got home, but that really is unnecessary...Codefox said it all for me.

I'll only add this:

1. Although I think most of us prefer the cabinet of the 37-690, most of us agree that the 38-690 is the better radio of the two. It sounds better...smoother...especially once the tweeter wiring error and the crossover capacitor have been corrected.

2. I've never made anything from this hobby, it has always seemed to cost me money.

[Sam samuelian]

Thanks for writing, I always appreciate good advice. Actually, I don't usually have that kind of money to spend since I'm on disability. I'm 63 now and have always made a living out of taking hobbies and enjoying them while at the same time or later turning them into businesses. Did that with 16MM Hollywood features, motion lamps, and much more. The radio purchase was funded by my inheritance from my 91 year old father.

Not sure what you mean when you say "what is the purpose of buying an old set and then farming the work out to others" in my present situation. The set I was offered is fully restored electronically and has great original finish.

Also, I can do and enjoy electronic work but my talents are limited to simple things like replacing capacitors, etc. You might know Fred Rice who's on this forum. He and I go way back in radio and tv.

[TA Forbes]

The prices for the chassis and the cabinet resto seem high to me, but then again the 37/38-690 is a top of the line set.

I do not have either model, but I do have a 37-116 and a 38-116 and have to agree that the 38 is the better set.

[Arran]

I think that $3700 is definately at the higher end of the price range for a 37 or even a 38-690, quite frankly I have never heard of one selling for that much although the Estes Auction may have. Compared to the 37 and 38-116 they are rare in that production was in the lower four digits compared to five digits with the 116s, for a top of the line high tube count set they seem to have had rather high production numbers and apparently also had a high survival rate. There are rarer sets in both the 1937 and 1937 Philco line, but that doesn't make them more desirable just more interesting.
To be brutally honest, I think if someone has to charge $1500 to electrically restore even one of these they they either don't know what they are doing or they are shaking down their customers. In all honesty unless they are doing something like fabricating a new power supply/amplifier chassis from scratch where is the $1500 going?
The same goes with the refinishing aspect, unless the cabinet has to be virtually rebuilt form the ground up, in fact most shops would go out of business charging such prices for a simple refinishing job. When it comes right down to it even a -690 cabinet is just a box, a larger box but a box none the less, the value of the actual radio really does not come into play here with restoration costs, it's straight labor and materials.
Regards
Arran

[Radioroslyn]

So Tom what makes the 38-116 better? Have two 37 models never had A 38.
Terry

[Ron Ramirez]

When you're spending $3000+ on a radio, you're getting into E.H. Scott territory. I don't ordinarily see 37-690 or 38-690 sets bring much more than $1500, often less.

Sam, I know someone who has a good, restorable 37-690 that he wants to sell, and it won't be anywhere near $3700. Send me a PM or email for details (and no, the seller is not me).

I have to ask, just who is this "best" restorer? Remember, $$$$ does not always equal the best.

A wife would prefer the 37-690 cabinet, as do most of us collectors. But like I said before, most of us prefer the 38-690's electronics.

The ideal setup would probably be a 38-690 double chassis in a 37-690 cabinet. But then, that would not be original.

[Arran]

I have to ask, just who is this "best" restorer? Remember, $$$$ does not always equal the best.

Exactly right, I'm currently doing a restoration job for someone on a Canadian Westinghouse 801 Columnaire chassis undoing the last so-called restorer's handiwork. While the set worked, sort of, the wiring is an absolute hack job of splices, overloaded tie points, and crudelytacked together solder joints. I don't know what this person charged my customer for this job but it cost him $100 shipping each way to Okatoks, Alberta to have him do the work. It took me an hour just to figure out where to start, and once I started I had to stop just so I would have a chance to catch up before losing the handle on what went where.
I can also recall a case of a fellow in Ontario that tried to sell me his complete radio collection, including consoles, assorted table sets, and even a 16B tombstone. He spend $250 having some goof out there change a pair of filter caps, one or two other items like a pilot lamp or a paper cap, and test the tubes in just one set. He had the repair bill, this clown charged him $25 each for the filter caps and $40 or $50 an hour on labor, this was on a 1940-41 era Marconi console which also had a broken dial glass (not sure if that was related to the repair work or not?).
He had spent similar amounts on one or two other sets, so when it came time for me to make an offer I just could not come up with a number, he was that far under water on these things. How someone could charge such amounts for so little actual work makes me wonder how they can sleep at night. An honest restorer would have told him that the Marconi and some of the others were not worth having that kind of money dumped into it rather then making a quick buck. He must have had thousands invested in this stuff, and a lot of it was near junk.
It also did not help that he was unwilling to break up the collection, which amounted to maybe a dozen unrelated sets of various ages, makes, and models from the mid 1930s till early 50s. There were two or three sets, including the 16B, that I would have gone for but since I reside in British Columbia there was no way that buying the whole lot was going to work. It was obvious that this fellow got it into his head to buy up anything and everything without carying out even the most basic research. Buy what you know (as they say), if you don't know find out first.
Regards
Arran

[TA Forbes]

Terry: it is just my opinion, could be the larger cabinet, could be something else. Both sets are fresh recapped and aligned (tough!), and the 37 is a fine radio. BUT the 38 sound is just a bit fuller/deeper.

Ron: do you have an opinion about this.

BTW, Terry, I covet your 37-116 Standard set!!!!!!

[Jayce]

Personally, I like the 38-690 for both its cabinet an it's design. I am hoping to be able to fin and afford one someday. It is one of only three radios I really want to find anymore. One is either a Philco 37-116 or 38-116, the second one a 1939 Zenith 15 tube robo, and the final is of course the 38-690.

[TA Forbes]

Those are some good goals!!

[Arran]

Personally, I like the 38-690 for both its cabinet an it's design. I am hoping to be able to fin and afford one someday. It is one of only three radios I really want to find anymore. One is either a Philco 37-116 or 38-116, the second one a 1939 Zenith 15 tube robo, and the final is of course the 38-690. Icon_smile

I would go for either the 37 or 38-116 over the 1939 brand Z model even if it does have 15 tubes. While the 15 tube brand Z does look very appealing the Philcos will run circles around one in performance if not style.
Regards
Arran

[Jayce]

Unfortunately, it's been easier to find the 15 tube brand Z offerings (at least the 38 model) around my area than the Philcos. Right now the prices are out of whack anyways. Seems if a Philco around here is a console, it automatically goes up to $95 in spite of condition. Almost afraid to see what a 37 or 38-116 would bring right now. Of course it it is an early 40's Philco, expect an asking price of $100 on up around here right now. Bleah.

[codefox1]

I think a nicely restored and warranteed console radio shouldn't cost more than $1000 or so. After all you can get a really nice vintage organ and tone cabinet for double that. And I'm talking delivered CONUS. Of course shipping and paypal if used is now 50% or so.