Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - Printable Version
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Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
Hello everyone, I'm new here, and I came across this site while I was researching an old Philco Tombstone radio I had bought on Facebook Marketplace last night for $75
Anyways Its a 1936 Philco Model 116B according to what I was able to find out on the Philco Archive on here.
I would like to know a little information on what I have and how to go about properly fixing it up electrically as this Radio seems to of had several botched repair jobs on it in the past that will need to be reverse and repaired.
one of the issues is that the power switch seems to of been bypassed on this radio at one point in time in its history as the radio powers on right when its plugged in and the power switch does nothing with the radio.
2nd issue is trying to get the shadow meter up and running properly again, and also trying to take care of the old bakelite capacitor blocks and getting those restuffed with modern capacitors, and also getting the power supply filter caps replaced.
Another issue is that there are 3 tube sockets on this radio that appear as if they should of had shields over them but then when I try to put tube shields over them the anode cap wiring gets kinked under the tube shield because the anode cap wire runs under where the tube shield would sit and then into the underside of the radio chassis.
Also I'll need a reproduction tube placement chart for the inside of the radio cabinet as the original tube placement chart has long since disappeared from the inside of the radio.
Any help and info on this Radio would be very much appreciated.
-Levi
Pictures of the unit in question is posted below.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - PhilcoJohn - 12-09-2019
Nice find how did you come across it! Hope it has been electronicly gone through and it is a good player.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
No unfortunately this radio is in as is condition, it currently doesn't work, I will need to go through it electrically and replace the power supply filter caps and all of the coupling caps including somehow figuring out a way to properly restuff the old bakelite capacitor blocks inside the chassis, and also getting the shadow meter going, and getting the cabinet refurbished and the grille cloth replaced with proper period correct grille cloth as what's on it right now isn't proper grille cloth, its just an old cut up pillow case that someone stuck on there to replace the original grille cloth that apparently got damaged.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - klondike98 - 12-09-2019
Welcome to the Phorum!
Lots of help available here in the Phorum. For starters one way to get at those bakelite block capacitors is found in our Library section. Bakelite Block data is also available in the Library.
There are a number of threads in the Electronic Restoration section on 116B restorations. 116B Thread by Phlogiston. 116B thread by Radioroslyn. 116B thread by Klondike98 and there are others you can find by searching for them.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
Thanks for the pointers.
I made a huge rookie mistake just now, the dial was dirty so I thought I would clean it up with some windex, which turned out to be a huge mistake, I ended up rubbing off about 75% of the dial's labeling which I didn't realize would come off that easily.
So I'm going to need a new dial to replace the original which had survived comepletely intact for over 80 years until now.
Anyone on here have a spare dial for a 116B that they'd be willing to part with or know where I could get one?
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - Radioroslyn - 12-09-2019
Hi Levi and welcome to the Phorum!
I'll try to answer your questions systematic.
<Its a 1936 Philco Model 116B according to what I was able to find out
Yes it is it's the early 1936 model.
<power switch seems to of been bypassed on this radio at one point in time in its history as the radio powers on right when its plugged in and the power switch does nothing with the radio.
Could be one of two things. The switch contacts are stuck and mechanically aren't opening. Contacts are burnt open and the volume control/off-on sw will need to be replaced. Post a pic of it so we can see if it's the original unit.
<2nd issue is trying to get the shadow meter up and running properly again
Was it working? If it wasn't there are a lot of factors that need to be check/serviced before the sm will work properly. That wouldn't be high on the list till the caps are replaced, tubes are tested/weak ones replaced, resistor checked, and a full alignment. After that then play with the sm. If it doesn't move at all more than likely the coil is open in it and will need to be rewound to get to work order.
<Another issue is that there are 3 tube sockets on this radio that appear as if they should of had shields over them but then when I try to put tube shields over them the anode cap wiring gets kinked under the tube shield because the anode cap wire runs under where the tube shield would sit and then into the underside of the radio chassis.
First off the cap isn't really an anode cap. This would imply that it's connected the anode or plate of the tube. It isn't as it connects to the control grid of the tube. Typically the plate/anode has high voltage connected to it where the control grid doesn't so there is no shock hazard. Real plate caps most of the time will have a ceramic cover to minimize the shock hazard. To fit the shield I put the tube in it's socket, connect the grid cap, if it use the square shields try the position the wire to go up the corner, slip the shield down over the tube and onto the base at the chassis.
<Also I'll need a reproduction tube placement chart for the inside of the radio cabinet as the original tube placement chart has long since
disappeared from the inside of the radio.
https://www.philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=19205
Dial can be had here: http://www.radiodaze.com/philco-116-116x-27-5107/
Here's the 116B I serviced abt a yr ago https://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=16833
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - mikethedruid - 12-09-2019
The caps on these tubes go to the control GRID, not to the plate. These are not high power transmitting tubes where that is sometimes the case. Knowing this is important when reading the schematics. If you don't have one, get an old RCA Receiving Tube Manual from Amazon. They can be had fairly inexpensively.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
OK, so this radio has the rounded tube shield mounts, not the square ones, (I believe this is a super early 116B set as it has a lot of the features that the earlier 116B's had in them rather than the later 116B's had in them).
As for the power switch/volume control, I took a look at it and it is wired into the circuit but it just doesn't function for some reason, and when you turn the knob it makes a clicking noise like it should be working but it doesn't do anything.
This radio had at one point in time an antenna assembly from the back of a 1950s AA5 radio fastened to the bottom of the cabinet for some reason.
As for the Shadow meter goes, I'm not sure if it works or not as have yet to be able to power this unit up properly.
As for the tuning dial goes, how do you get it off the tuning shaft, and is there any way to know which way it goes back on so that it goes on the right way?
Sorry for all the questions, this is my first Philco of this type I've worked on, as most of the radios I've ever worked on were mostly AA5 radios from the 1940s and 1950s and or 1940s vintage multiband radios, or 1930s vintage AM only Tombstones or Cathedral Radios, I've never worked on anything this fancy before.
Also Who's brilliant idea was it at Philco to print a radio dial with ink that wiped off with something as mild as just soap and water?! Who ever came up with that idea apparently didn't want their radios being cleaned if they got dirty...
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
OK so here's a picture of the underside of the radio showing the power switch/volume control, as you can see, it does have its original power switch/volume control assembly installed and in circuit.
Also an interesting feature is that this radio seems to have a headphone jack on the back of the radio for personal listening purposes.
another thing is that this 116B also seems to have the 2 capacitors going from the bottom two speaker plug terminals and connecting to the closest terminal to the speaker jack on the giant wirewound resistor on the side of the radio, and one of those capacitors vented but I have no idea what value those capacitors are as they aren't marked on the capacitors themselves what their value is, and they're not on the schematic in the Rider's manual for this radio.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - Radioroslyn - 12-09-2019
>Who's brilliant idea was it at Philco to print a radio dial with ink that wiped off with something as mild as just soap and water?
Don't know but oms cleans it just fine.
>As for the tuning dial goes, how do you get it off the tuning shaft,
There is the shiny washer looking thing in the center of the dial. It has two small round holes. Take a pair of needle nose pliers and insert the tips of the pliers into the two holes. Hold the dial and turn the pliers counterclockwise. The washer will come off then the dial can be removed.
https://philcoradio.com/library/index.php/shop-talk/techniques/dial-drive-rebuilding-2/
The caps @ the spkr plug are .006@1kv
The chassis looks pretty unmolested. Volume control is the original one so I would pop it out and clean it. You've got abt a 50/50 chance that it's going to be usable. If the sw is working the pot maybe worn out.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-09-2019
I don't know whats oms is but just simple handsoap and water should NOT have been enough to of taken that ink off that dial, and yet it did, even windex shouldn't of been enough to of taken that ink off and yet it did, so apparently that ink that Philco used on their dials was NOT very durable especially if it couldn't even stand up to being wiped off with just soap and water to take off 80 years worth of dirt and grime build-up on the dial.
As for taking the dial off I finally figured it out on my own after a while, but it took almost brute force to get that retaining washer off because it was stuck on there by years of dirt and grime build-up (the same dirt and grime build-up that was on the dial itself that I tried cleaning off but then ended up ruining the dial).
I'm also going to need the inner dial insert as well (the smaller disc that goes in behind the tuner dial that has the verigated circle pattern on it where the outer circles are thinner and the inner circles are thicker) and has a half moon shaped cutout on the bottom with another circular cutout ontop of that, as that one got ruined as well, and that one all I was cleaning it with was just water and that's it and the ink came off of that small insert, which tells me that the ink they used was water soluble ink because otherwise just plain water shouldn't be enough to take off ink on a tuner dial like that, if it was oil based (like it should of been) it would of held up just fine to water, and other water-based cleaners like windex or soap and water.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - mikethedruid - 12-09-2019
The ink on the old Philco dials is WATER SOLUBLE ! It will wash off with even a damp cloth. Many of us, including me learn that the hard way. Only solution is to order a new dial from Radio Daze if they have one to match yours.
http://www.radiodaze.com/philco-116-116x-27-5107/
I also found this on YouTube. I'm not sure if it is the one for your radio, but it is another place to look.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Philco-radio-dial-AM-SW-27-5098/174085085583?hash=item288847998f:g:fogAAOSwpyBduEnX
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27-5107-VINTAGE-REPLICA-Phenolic-RADIO-DIAL-FOR-Philco-Chassis-116/333419722961?hash=item4da15d38d1:g:Qt0AAOSwvCpd4uot
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - Radioroslyn - 12-09-2019
>I don't know whats oms
Odorless mineral spirits
There is a link for a replacement dial on my 1st post.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - captainclock1988 - 12-10-2019
That would of been nice to of known sooner because I did have some Odorless Mineral Spirits on me, had I known that that's what I should of used to clean the dirt build up off the dial on this radio sooner I would of saved myself the hassle (and the $31) of having to get a new tuner dial for this radio.
I did ask if there was anything I should of known about this radio before I tried to do anything further to it, and the tidbit about the ink on the tuner dial being sensitive to water based cleaning products would of been an important tidbit of information to of shared with me when I asked...
Especially since I did say in my initial posting that this was my first time working on a Philco Radio from this time period, because the only Philcos I've ever worked on previously were the ones from the 1940s that had glass dials rather than phenolic dials which the glass dials that Philco made weren't sensitive to water based cleaners.
RE: Just picked up a 1936 Philco 116B Tombstone Radio Today and need some info on it - 462ron - 12-10-2019
Hi Captain, concerning your on/off switch, if you disconnect one wire,place an ohmmeter across the terminals and try the switch just to confirm it isn't operating. You can look and see if there is any opening at all to the interior of the switch and try and spray some contact cleaner into it. If there is no apparent opening, one thing I've had luck with is using a very thin drill and gingerly try and drill a hole through the plastic while trying to make sure you only drill through without penetrating to the interior. Then you can spray some contact cleaner in. It is a last resort thing to try as you have nothing to lose at this point and could save you from needing to find a replacement!
Ron