[Oldie Goldie]

In the photo of the guts of the chassis, what looks to be hot snot (glue gun) is some kind of rubbery silicon.

Like I said gents, I was turning the center fine tuning control and kind of jumped out in my hand. I havent lost any ball bearings, clips or anything else because I haven't moved the radio. So whatever is in there is still in there.
I didn't hear any expensive sounds or broken metal sounds.
It was so gooey and gummed up as I was turning it it just dislocated. The black crap on the shaft only dissolved with WD-40.

Any bodge wire the last clown used I have a stash of cloth like covered copper wire salvaged from a domestic kitchen oven which is both old timey looking and high heat rated probably silicone core high voltage stuff.

[Oldie Goldie]

I heard some Fibber McGee and Molly on station 800khz yesterday, it was funny.
Downloaded a gigantic archive of thousands of episodes from the mid 30s to the 50s. For all I know the entire discography. Anyways it was eleven gigabytes hot and heavy.

[Oldie Goldie]

klondike98 the schematic PDF looks really nice, thank you for sharing!

[Oldie Goldie]

I followed the instructions on the link another member provided.
Carefully took the shaft assembly apart. One screw was the devil to unscrew, frozen in its hole. Chewed up the head I had to file it to make it look half decent again.
Cleaned the black gunk out with lots of wd-40 and metal bristle brush.
Put the little ball bearings in, than the spring, than the next little ball bearings,than the inner shaft, than compressed everything and slid it home until it clicked into the outer ring. Than the lock washer. It works perfectly, the course outside control and fine inner control.
But a couple turns POP! It throws the inner shaft out and I'm back to square one!

I'm getting disappointed.

[Oldie Goldie]

I had no idea the heart of the tuning mechanism was based on such an unnecessarily complicated fragile design. With such crucial close tolerances where any wear or slop the thing literally springs apart!!!
Bad BAD design. I would have incorporated a second spring clip to hold the inner shaft in after it's snapped in with the ball bearings.

I suppose I could put the two inner ball bearings and the spring in a plastic baggie. Put the stupid thing back together, put a dab of water based glue on the inner tuning knob so it stays in for cosmetic purposes; than just settle for having just the course tuning control.
Philco.....I should have bought a Zenith or a good solid General Electric.

[Oldie Goldie]

I put it all to bed for the night.
In the morning I'm going to try to get the three big balls bearings out and see what's what. I only got one of the big balls bearings out the others staying out, if that makes a difference.

A turn or two and all the tension on that spring releases and zinggg the inner knob and Its shaft pops loose.
If I put this old whore back together in its cabinet and it does that, it's going in the trash.

[Oldie Goldie]

I don't get this. Is the spring too strong or gotten weak and that's why the ball bearings are losing the grasp on the inner shaft???
There doesn't seem to be major slop in the surfaces.....It only pos out and I have to reset everything if I turn it half a turn, than reset it and I can turn j and turn it, than it goes to H**l.
I find zero on Google on any other 610s with this issue of the fine tuning control shaft spitting itself out.
$50. This guy sure saw me coming.

[Oldie Goldie]

I have a theory. One of the three big balls bearings came out while the other two wouldn't slide out.

I didn't think it was important. I concentrated on cleaning all the other stuff.
But if that black gunk has gummed up around the inside of the two holes, than the two balls aren't coming out all the way to mate with the narrow in the inside shaft.

So in theory only one ball is holding the shaft on (the other three only bearly) and any roughness in the surfaces would cause the thing to pop out the first few turns.

[Radioroslyn]

Maybe it's time to replace the 3 ball bearings. I've done it on a few sets to lessen the roughness in the tuning.

[morzh]

This assembly usually have 3 larger bolls, from the sides, and one smaller, at the bottom, under the shaft.

[Oldie Goldie]

morzh, the center shaft has one ball bearing than a spring than another ball bearing.
The outer tube has three bigger balls bearings.
Something isn't right. I have seen zero from other guys with their radios barfing out it's center tuning knob when you twist it.
Either this thing needs to have perfect close tolerances like a swiss watch to hold itself together, and selfdetructs if it gets any wear whatsoever, or I'm missing a step.

It doesn't make sense to me why you have to pile in a ball than a spring than another ball.
It makes for a LOT of spring tension, so much I have to press it against something hard to put the assembly back together. Something is fishy.

[Oldie Goldie]

Okay gents I went at this with a fresh eye this morning.
Cleaned everything all over again.
There is wear and slop somewhere that is just enough to keep this thing from holding itself together under spring tension. I think it only worked twenty years ago as the seller said because the original grease was so gummed up and hard it filled in wear points and held it together "enough".
Than it fell apart twenty years later when I disturbed it all by turning it.

Stupid stupid design. Reminds me almost of overly complicated highly machined German stuff that works beautiful when it's new and healthy, but the decades go by and wear and slop creeps in and it can't handle it.
A Lugar vs an AK-47.
The boys at RCA and Delco were probably laughing at Philco for this silly mechanism design, why they didn't just add another knob with a smaller toothed gear instead of this knob within a knob BS.

Philco.....We sell the sizzle not the steak!
Zenith.....The quality goes in before the name goes on!
Judge Smails.... You'll get nothing and like it!!!!!

[Oldie Goldie]

Put it all together. Put the two little ball bearings and spring in a baggie.
And the shaft and center knob is just laying in the hole. Going to put a piece of double-sided tape in there to keep the center knob inside the course tuning knob for "looks".

Course tuning works much better after I cleaned everything and oiled it. But fine control is defunct.
I don't think fine control is really needed on the AM band anyways.

Radio works. My sledgehammer almost came out to play over this.

[MrFixr55]

Hi Oldie Goldie,

I have 2 RCA 6BT Farm sets that have a similar concentric dial setup.  Funny, the condenser looks similar to the Philco.  This setup may have been common to several sets, even a lowly Arvin 4 tube "Rhythm Baby" job that I have the chassis from.  On that one, someone got frustrated and soldered the 2 shafts together.I think that the 3 ball bearings act as the planetary gears in this setup.  In reviewing TV Man's thread, I think that there may be a clip that is supposed to hold the thing together.  the following pics are from the thread from TVMan.  Is it only the inner shaft pulling or both the in er and outer.  If both the inner and outer, then the clip is missing.  If only the inner, then there is something else wrong.

   
   
   

Hope this helps.

[Oldie Goldie]

MrFixr55, those photos are the ones I have been using and the instructions on putting it back together.

I put the ball in, than the spring, than the ball. Put the shaft part ways in, than slide it into the outer tube, compress the spring and click the whole thing together.

The outer course control works perfectly, and the fine control works perfectly, slowly rotating the end gear. Turning it it's smooth than POP! It barfs the shaft out and I'm back to square one.

I am at a loss and I'm steamed

Yeah I paid only $50 plus $40 for shipping and $10 the taxes the bean counters sucked up, but I still feel I got a little corn holed. As I can see this is an unabtanium part.