[Steve_R]

Hi All,
New member to the Phorum but I have been lurking for years!  Great information.  I have recently purchased my first Philco.  I opened it up turned it over and found a real mess.  The wiring is literally taped together in some places.  The caps are melted and most of the wire insulation is cracked or missing.  Going to be a real job.  I have included a pic so you can get an idea of what I am up against.  I am relatively new to the restoration game and will probably need lots of advice on this one. 

If possible, I was wondering if anyone has some high quality pics of physical wiring of a restored radio.  I have a good schematic but would like some sort of road map of the physical  wiring to help with placement.  I don't trust how things are wired now.  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

   

[NostalgiaRadioTime]

Hi, Steve, and welcome to the wonderful world of crumbling insulation. It appears you have a 1940-42 five or six tube Philco, which feature cramped chassis and are loaded with wiring that was originally coated with a rubber-like substance that has since turned hard and brittle and will crumble and flake off just by moving the wire slightly, leaving you with a bare wire.

If you have your model number, you can look in the Philco Service Bulletins section ( https://philcoradio.com/library/index.ph...bulletins/ ) and print out a schematic.

Unfortunately, unlike RCA and GE, Philco did not have an actual underside of the chassis diagram showing exactly where each wire is placed. You will have to trace your way through the schematic line by line, using a highlighter marker as you locate and verify each connection. Before you do anything, take LOTS of pictures so you can reference how the wires were placed.

I wish I could say these early 40's pre-war sets are easy radios to restore, but they are not, as to make the radio safe to use, you pretty much have to start from scratch and re-wire the entire chassis. Even if the wires look good, if they are sitting on top of one another, it's entirely possible that the insulation between the two wires "melted" (for lack of a better term) together and you'll have two bare wires touching one another in just a tiny spot. I've witnessed this happening on a similar radio I restored once. You can't see the bare spot, but it's there. Same goes if a wire is sitting directly on the chassis. The coating on the underside can be gone leaving you with a bare wire that is shorted to the metal chassis.

Take your time, don't get frustrated or overwhelmed. Just take lots of notes, and ask a lot of questions. There are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people here. Good luck!

[Steve_R]

Greg, thanks for the quick reply and good advice.  I was hoping someone on the phorum has restored one of these radios and would be willing to post some pics of the completed wiring.  Just to give me a hint of where to place things.  I've traced some of the existing wiring and it doesn't match with the schematic.

Thanks again for the welcome and the advice.
Steve

[NostalgiaRadioTime]

If you can find your model number, Steve, post that here. You might find someone who has restored one and has a "finished" photo taken under the chassis. Your model number will be on a paper label on the bottom of the cabinet or inside the cabinet, or in some cases stamped on the outer back side of the chassis. It should be a 40-XXX or 41-XXX or 42-XXX number, the first two digits indicating the year your set was manufactured.

[Steve_R]

Thanks Greg the model is 42-327 code 122

Steve

[Radioroslyn]

Hi Steve and welcome,

https://philcoradio.com/library/download...20Book.pdf Most of the time code numbers noted in the service notes as to what the circuit differences are.

Your chassis looks pretty average for the small tabletop sets as Greg noted. The 1939-42 sets have the plague of rubber coated wire. Not a lot of fun to service as there's not a lot of room on the underside. If it has an oval speaker be careful with it, they're hard to come by and expensive to recone.

[Steve_R]

Thanks Terry for the advice and the welcome.

Steve

[radiorich]

Hello Steve,
I not ran into a Philco that I needed to completely rewire but I have a few General Electrics and RCA's .
Welcome aboard and you will find a lot knowledgeable people here .
One word advice take lots of photos and also it helps to label the wires make a few copies of the Schematic even blow up the area your working on and you can use colored markers to trace wires .

Sincerely Richard

[Arran]

I electrically restored one of these same sets a few years ago, but never bothered with pictures. I seem to recall replacing some of the chassis wiring, but the wiring that must be replaced is that going into the IF cans, once it gets disturbed you can end up with bare wire touching the chassis. It's tricky to get them apart, in fact you have to remove each transformer, wires and all, from the chassis before you can remove the clip that holds the coil inside, but more importantly to get it back on. 20 gauge solid core is fine for the chassis wire, but I would use stranded inside the IF cans, or just copy whatever Philco used.
Regards
Arran

[mikethedruid]

Yeah, Rich, I've run into a couple of Philcos with the rubber wiring. The worst, though, have been RCAs. I have a particular liking for the model 18T and have refurbished two already and have a third waiting. It is a very nice, large, 3 band set with a TRF stage. All rubber wiring. real pain. The RCA 5Q55 was not nearly as bad, but still bad enough. Of course, when they made these sets, I doubt that anyone ever considered that they would still be in use 70 years later, much less that they would be collected and cherished as antiques which people restored to good operating condition. They were merely consumer products to be used until they were no longer economical enough for the needed repair to be worth doing, and then replaced.

[Patrick]

Just to get in my 2¢ worth: When replacing the wires in the IF cans, you'll probably find the insulating paper (if there is any) just crumbles. I always remove it all, and wrap the assembly in fish paper before installing it back in the can. Even if there is no paper, I add some in case one of my solder joins MAY hit the can and short it out.

[Steve_R]

Rich, thanks for the welcome and I spent last night doing some of what you suggested; taking lots of pics and mapping out the circuits.  Arron and Patrick, great advice on the IF transformers.  I touch the wires and the insulation just crumbles in my hand.  Patrick, what is "fish paper"?  I'm going to try to get  them out of the chassis today and see what they look like.  Will keep everyone posted.  This is going to be a challenge.

Thanks,
Steve

[klondike98]

Welcome to the Phorum!


It’s an insulation paper.
https://forum.digikey.com/t/what-is-fish...-used/1390

[mikethedruid]

When needed, one can make a suitable substitute for store bought "fish paper" by taking a piece of brown paper from a paper bag, or brown wrapping paper, then melting a block of the kind of paraffin wax they sell in grocery stores for sealing jelly jars and soaking that paper well with it. Once it cools it is ready for use.

[Steve_R]

Bob and Mike, thanks for the info on the fish paper.  Will give it a try.

Steve